Steering Problems of Jeep Wrangler - part 1

Dear NHTSA, I am writing to formally report a serious safety issue involving my 2023 Jeep Wrangler. Recently, I experienced what is widely known as the “death wobble,” a violent and uncontrollable shaking of the steering wheel and front end while driving. This incident nearly caused me to lose control of the vehicle and crash, creating an extremely dangerous situation for myself and others on the road. The “death wobble” is caused by defective or worn suspension and steering components, including track bar bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, and other parts. The experience was terrifying, and I had to carefully slow down and pull over to regain control of the vehicle. I am aware that a nationwide class-action lawsuit settlement was approved in June 2023 for Jeep Wrangler models (2018–2020) and Jeep gladiator models (2020) for this exact issue. The settlement provided extended warranties, potential coverage for suspension components, and reimbursements for repairs. While my vehicle is a 2023 model, I am concerned that this ongoing safety defect persists in newer models as well, which suggests that Jeep has not adequately addressed the problem. My vehicle is currently at a dealership, and I have been informed that I am responsible for covering the cost of repairs despite this being a known and dangerous defect. I strongly believe this is an unfair burden on consumers and poses a continuing public safety risk. I respectfully request that the NHTSA investigate this matter, evaluate whether 2023 Jeep Wrangler models should be included in recalls or settlements, and take steps to hold Jeep accountable. I also request guidance on what recourse I may have as a consumer who has experienced this safety issue firsthand. Thank you for your time and commitment to road safety. I am happy to provide additional information, documentation, or repair records as needed.

See all problems of the 2023 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

While driving on a couple occasions the traction control light kicked in and wouldn’t allow me to turn I had to come to almost a complete stop, I thought it had gone away and a few days later I had a death wobble that occurred on a very busy hwy and had to pull into the middle lane to prevent an accident. I could not let go completely of the wheel but I also couldn’t really control the vehicle I had to stop it. I was not turning when this one happened I was going straight I had already turned and drove straight for a few minutes before it happened. I was able to drive a quarter of a mile to the auto repair shop where it is sitting. He told me himself it is very dangerous to drive it when that occurs.

See all problems of the 2021 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

I drove over a rough patch/bump in the road. A ton of warning messages and failure lights activated on the dash. In addition to the check engine light, there were warnings for electronic stability protection, sway bar disconnect, abs failure, power steering failure, shift lever malfunction. In addition to these malfunctions a failures, the windshield wipers turned on un-commanded and the radiator fan went into the highest possible speed, the digital engine temperature gauge failed, and both the digital and analog speedometers failed. This happened on a arterial road, losing power steering and braking at ~30mph unexpectedly was a shock, but manageable. At highway speeds it likely would have led to an accident or collision. Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation of the failure lights and systems failing, but it had happened several times prior to this occurrence, albeit only with dash warning lights, no actual system failures. After the system failures, I stopped driving the vehicle. The problem appears to be somewhat widespread and is caused by a failing can-c bus. A quick google search will reveal numerous descriptions on the same dangerous issue. This thread seems to clearly expiain the root of the issue with the can-c bus: [xxx] I replaced my old can-c bus (p/n 68321746aa) with a new part and it appears to have resolved the issue. I have saved the old can-c bus for inspection if NHTSA is interested. It looks exactly like the failed bus in the linked reddit thread above. Information redacted pursuant to the freedom of information act (foia), 5 u. S. C. 552(b)(6).

See all problems of the 2019 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

Jeep randomly shuts off while actively driving. I have automatic jl. Screen shows to service clutch. All dash lights come on, no buss bar detected, abs, no traction control, airbags, park sense off, check engine, steering locks up. Engine shuts off while driving. Mph screen goes blank all electrical stops working. Connector behind stock bumper is expised to the elements causing shortage. Putting my life in danger everytime I drive.

See all problems of the 2018 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

Subject: urgent safety complaint regarding Jeep with death wobble – purchased from maxon Buick GMC, union, NJ dear NHTSA, I am writing to report a serious safety issue involving a Jeep SUV I purchased for my son on [xxx], from maxon Buick GMC located in union, new jersey. The vehicle was purchased for over $30,000, and within the first day of driving, my son began experiencing what is commonly referred to as the "death wobble. " this violent shaking occurs unexpectedly while driving and has been happening every day since the vehicle was purchased. After doing some research, we learned that the “death wobble” is a known issue with certain Jeep models, and the symptoms are consistent with what my son has experienced. It is extremely frightening and dangerous, and I am deeply concerned for his safety and the safety of others on the road. I do not understand how a dealership is allowed to sell a vehicle in this condition. Selling a vehicle with such a potentially deadly defect is both irresponsible and unethical. This issue must be investigated and addressed immediately to prevent further risk to drivers and passengers. Please consider this an urgent request to look into this matter. I would appreciate confirmation of this complaint and any information on what steps will be taken to hold the dealership and manufacturer accountable. I have video while it's happening but unable to upload for some reason thank you for your time and attention to this critical safety issue. Sincerely, [xxx] [xxx] [xxx] [xxx] information redacted pursuant to the freedom of information act (foia), 5 u. S. C. 552(b)(6).

See all problems of the 2022 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

The contact owns a 2019 Jeep Wrangler. The contact stated that while driving over a bump in the road at an undisclosed speed, the vehicle experienced the death wobble. The contact slowed down to 30 mph to correct the failure. The contact stated that all four tires had previously been replaced. The vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired by an independent mechanic or dealer. The manufacturer was made aware of the failure. The failure mileage was approximately 44,000.

The contact owns a 2019 Jeep Wrangler. The contact stated that while driving 70 mph, the vehicle decelerated unintendedly and failed to exceed 40 mph. Additionally, the vehicle lost power steering functionality and became difficult to steer. The contact stated that the vehicle later operated as needed; however, the failure recurred several times while driving. Several unknown warning lights were illuminated. The vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired by an independent mechanic or dealer. The manufacturer was not notified of the failure. The failure mileage was 111,000.

On [xxx] while driving my 2018 Jeep Wrangler unlimited sport (VIN: [xxx] ), the braking system failed without warning while I was approaching a stop sign on a residential road. I pressed the brake pedal and felt extreme resistance and grinding, followed by a near-total lack of braking power. I was forced to abruptly swerve into an open driveway to avoid a collision. This sudden malfunction put my life and the safety of others at serious risk, especially had it occurred on a highway or near pedestrian traffic. The affected component appears to be part of the braking system—likely the master cylinder, brake booster, or brake line integrity—but a full diagnosis is pending inspection. There were no warning lights or messages displayed on the dashboard at any time prior to or during the failure. The vehicle gave no indication that a malfunction was imminent. Immediately after the incident, I parked the vehicle and did not attempt to drive it again. As of now, the issue has not yet been formally confirmed by a dealer, but I am in the process of getting it inspected by a certified independent mechanic, and I am willing to make the vehicle and its components available for inspection upon request. I also plan to provide documentation once the evaluation is complete. I only recently purchased this Jeep from carvana a few months ago, and it is extremely concerning that such a critical failure could occur so soon. The vehicle has two completed recalls related to steering and rear windows, but none that address braking—making this unexpected failure even more alarming. I believe this could indicate a larger pattern or potential defect that has not yet been officially acknowledged or addressed. This event was dangerous and could have resulted in a serious accident. I am requesting that this complaint be formally investigated, and I am open to cooperating fully with NHTSA, Chrysler, or any affiliated parties in reviewing the failure and addressing issue. Information redacted pursuant to the freedom of information act (foia).

The contact owns a 2019 Jeep Wrangler. The contact stated while driving 20 mph, the vehicle stalled. The contact stated that the vehicle was restarted. The contact continued to drive, but the power steering became inoperable. The contact stated that the vehicle became extremely hot, and the cells popped and damaged the battery. The contact stated that the check engine, power steering, and battery warning lights were illuminated. The vehicle was towed to the residence. The contact called the local dealer, but the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. The manufacturer was contacted, but no additional assistance was provided. The failure mileage was approximately 49,700.

I am writing to formally notify you of a serious issue I am experiencing with my recently purchased 2025 Jeep Wrangler rubicon x , purchased on 17 June 2025 from your dealership. Just two weeks after taking delivery of the vehicle, I encountered a major electrical malfunction that rendered the car unsafe and undrivable. While driving, I received an alarming safety message on the dashboard stating: "for safety reasons, please park the vehicle. It will shut off automatically. " shortly after, multiple critical warnings appeared, including: check engine light illuminated gear indicator began blinking transmission failed to shift properly loss of acceleration control and other electronic functions this sudden failure occurred without any prior warning and has caused significant inconvenience, as well as concern regarding the vehicle’s reliability and safety—especially considering it is a brand-new car with only approximately [insert mileage] miles on it. I am requesting a prompt investigation into this issue and an explanation regarding the cause of the failure. I would also appreciate immediate support in resolving this matter, including warranty service, temporary transportation arrangements, and a clear action plan moving forward. Please confirm receipt of this message and advise on the next steps. I look forward to a swift and responsible resolution to this matter.

Statement of facts 1. I am the registered owner of a 2023 Jeep Wrangler rubicon (VIN: [xxx]), purchased for approximately $75,000 usd, inclusive of all taxes and registration, in cash. 2. I have been driving different cars for over 25 years and have owned multiple vehicles. This Jeep Wrangler is the most expensive vehicle I have ever owned, and the only one to cause severe safety issues for me and my family. 3. I primarily drive this vehicle on weekends with my two young children (ages [xxx] and [xxx]) seated in the rear seats. The persistent and unresolved mechanical issues with this vehicle have directly jeopardized our physical safety and my livelihood( I couldn’t go to work during many weeks) 4. There are new problems related to manufacturing defects that keep poping up every month since last 6 months while the car is only used for 25k and under basic warranty (example on top of serious death wobble issue , there are incidents of coolant issues, 95b safety recall, battery pack issues- refer below photos, in addition I have phone messages and videos of death wobble as evidence) issues and service history 4. At approximately 5,000 miles of use, the vehicle began exhibiting significant technical issues. 5. The first major defect was related to the battery pack, which rendered the vehicle inoperable. The dealership held the vehicle for approximately two months in 2023 to address this issue. 6. Over the last six months, the vehicle developed a recurring and dangerous condition widely referred to as the "death wobble" – a violent and uncontrollable shaking of the vehicle while driving on the freeway. 7. This defect has occurred multiple times, forcing me to immediately pull over on the freeway, placing me, my children, and surrounding drivers at serious risk of harm or collision. 8. I have documented multiple instances of the death wobble via video and have submitted evidence to both: othe Jeep dealership ojeep customer care / fca us llc 9. Despite my repeat information redacted pursuant to the freedom of information.

This vehicle is not suitable for driving, it has suspension, alignment, brake and speed problems. I was about to have an accident, I was going down an avenue and suddenly the wheels stopped and the car began to move from one side to the other and I lost stability of the steering wheel and the car, putting my life and the lives of my family (my girlfriend and my mother) at risk, luckily I did not cause an accident because there was no car in the side lane . . . It is impossible to drive this car, the next day I took the car to a detailed inspection at a mechanical workshop specialized in Jeeps and indeed it has serious and serious problems with the car. There are images where the lights on the dashboard are on and the engine is also overheated . . . For this reason, I decided to return the car to the dealer and file the report as evidence of this defective car and dangers to driving . . .

See all problems of the 2016 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

I was pulling into work when my dash lit up with all warning lights, I was unable to shut my vehicle off. I had to disconnect the battery to do so. After a couple hours of being disconnected, it operated normal. Few hours later, went to leave a store and it lit up again, this time my steering was nonfunctional. The common issue was the can buss connector. For several years this has been an issue, apparently a TSB was placed but I am unable to find it. This should be a national recall. This part controls literally every electrical component of this vehicle. It's I intermittent and unknown to when it will malfunction. This creates a huge hazard to driving as when it does malfunction, you're unable to steer, your vehicle can shut off, it's not safe at all. Then come to find that the part isn't even covered as a replacement on the TSB. There is no reason this part should not be recalled, how does a small plastic block become defective other than poor craftsmanship? when the vehicle can't communicate to the other parts (engine, transmission, steering, fuel system, etc) that is a huge problem and is not worth the risk of death because someone can no longer drive or steer when going 65 mph.

See all problems of the 2020 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

Abs failing. Loss of traction control & possible brake failure. Vehicle manufacturer failing to provide parts.

See all problems of the 2010 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

The check engine light came on in my car. I was waiting for the dealer to call me to fix it for the 3rd time. I was on my way home when every electrical option on the vehicle turned on- wipers, lights, dash lights, brake- which caused the car to brake- then it turned off and I had no brakes, the car had no steering, it accelerated and I went off the road.

June 5, 2025 stopped at red light turned green tried to turn left and the Jeep flashed the electric red bolt symbol and check engine light came on lost all power would not go when gas pedal was pushed. A/c lost power started blowing hot air and engine turned off. Restarted engine finally got it to go enough to pull out of traffic. Turned off engine opened hood checked battery cables, fuses and all was intact. Started engine drove slowly to the autozone store to have the diagnostic test done and it showed p2101 power train system throttle actuator a control motor circuit range /performance detected unexpected voltage on the throttle actuator control motor circuit also c121c-00 abs torque request signal denied anti-lock brake system u0401-00 implausible data received from ecm/pcm “a”. System was reset to be able to drive home. 6/16/25 went to start Jeep to go to work made a clicking noise check engine light on and the voltage warning sensor flashing and showed service electronic stability control error would not stay running checked battery cables fuses and restarted engine tried to back out of driveway engine would not go. Had Jeep towed to moore cdjr dealership where it was purchased from 9/2023 to have serviced found throttle body needs replaced dealership contacted several parts dealers, mopar, and other dealerships etc. To locate the part needed was advised couldn’t find the parts needed for the repair. Contacted service department and they advised they were calling national auto care my extended warranty for approval for repair. My concern is if I had been driving 65 mph and it went out I would have been in a accident when the vehicle stopped functioning. Safety of myself and other drivers would have been compromised. This is the 2. 0l turbo motor and have been advised that there are several issues with this motor and should trade in vehicle. I don’t have that option and this is the only vehicle I have.

Shortly after starting the vehicle and entering roadway, the power steering failed and shortly following an error came on regarding the abs system. I was able to pull the vehicle over safely, restart and the issue seemed resolved in that use. Next day, shortly after starting vehicle, same errors occurred, but self corrected. The day after that, shortly after starting the vehicle, all systems on the front panel cycled through several error codes, when attempting to shut the vehicle off to restart it, the vehicle would not shut off. Using the standard transmission, I was able to create a stall situation, but the vehicle's electrical would not shut off. After removing the key fab, the electrical system kept activating power systems, even turning on the windshield wipers when the control was in the off position. After 20 minutes and several attempts I was finally able to get the system to completely shut off.

The dash board stared to flash all sorts of symbols check engine light, auto start stop, sway bar disconnect unavailable, shifter problem. And then the power steering does not work, sometimes the throttle has no power, and sometimes the engine shuts off.

While driving I received random warnings on the dashboard: airbag failure, power steering failure, shift control failure, abs failure. After the flashing of all those warning, I lost the power steering and the ability to shift from drive to neutral. My inability to steer the car and loss of speed put my passengers and myself at risk and the safety of cars driving on the opposite lane at risk as I was able only to make very wide turns. I took the car to the dealer and after about two weeks the mechanic narrowed down the problem to a failure of the abs module and told me that that part is on backorder nation wide and may take over 3 months to come. I was advised to not drive the car or to drive at my own risk.

The steering gear box on my Jeep Wrangler has an active technical service bulletin regarding the faulty alluminum steering gear box causing wandering in the steering of the vehicle on all 2018-2020 Jeep Wranglers. This repair is a known issue by fca as they have a service bulletin regarding the issue. However they have not recalled the defective parts and refuse to cover replacing the defective parts unless the vehicle is still under warranty, or at a substantial cost to me. When I purchased my Jeep from westgate Jeep in raleigh, nc in late September 2024 at 84,000 miles the TSB had not been completed by the original owner. The Jeep is lifted but was sold to the original owner in that manner. It is a rocky ridge package that was sold the way it still is to the original owner. My safety and the safety of my family is at risk in the vehicle because it wanders excessively in the road. The incident consisted of passing 18 wheeler driving by in the opposite direction causing the Jeep to wander excessively to the right off of the edge of the road causing near loss of control and potential roll over. The issue has been found by my certified mechanic to be related to excessive movement/flexing in the steering gear box. The mechanic drove the vehicle and also noticed the wandering steering. Fca/Jeep should not be allowed to refuse to repair such a significant known issue with vehicles that they manufactured with defective parts they should be held accountable and made to recall and repair those defective parts. There are no active warning lights on the vehicle and a recent alignment was done by a certified mechanic when the tie rod and tie rod ends, drag link and drag link ends, ball joints and steering dampener where replaced. All tires are balanced and have equal wear the steering gear box is the only component of the steering system that has not been replaced and the issue remains. Please reference mopar t. S. B. 08-074-20 rev. B regarding the known issue. Thank you.

Vehicle loses power steering while driving and is near impossible to steer when this happens. If in a curve I'm afraid the vehicle will not respond in time and leave the roadway or cross into oncoming traffic.

I was driving about 65 mph and was turning with the road and my Jeep started to shake violently. I just about lost control of the vehicle. I pulled over on the interstate to check and see if I had a flat on a front tire or if the wheel was falling off of the Jeep. It was a very scary and unpleasant experience to have at 4:30 am going to work. Not sure what the problem is with the suspension or steering, but I thought for sure I was going to get in a wreck and traffic is really heavy which would have been very bad for many drivers!.

The car started to shake uncontrollably at highway speed without warning. Steering was very difficult. It was difficult to even see out of the vehicle due to extreme shaking. The car is going to the dealer to be examined. This is a low mileage daily driver, completely stock, with no modifications.

The contact owns a 2019 Jeep Wrangler. The contact stated while driving 35 mph, the air bag and brake warning lights illuminated. The contact stated that the steering wheel became inoperable, and the brake pedal was firm. The contact used the parking brake to slow the vehicle. The contact stated that the vehicle was sputtering and rattling abnormally. The vehicle was shifted into park. The contact stated that the vehicle failed to move for 30 minutes. The vehicle was restarted but was moving slowly and failed to exceed 5 mph while driving. The vehicle was towed to the local dealer but was not diagnosed or repaired. The manufacturer was not contacted. The failure mileage was approximately 129,143.

Dash panel started flashing all gauges went to zero. All warning lamps lit abs failure, power steering stopped, service antilock breaks, service electronic stability control, auto park disabled and service shift warnings started popping up. I was going 70 mph on the highway when the power steering went out. Luckily I didn’t hit anyone.

When 4h on transfer case is on,the front tire wobble when turning even in a slow driving speed. Also suspension is very horrible when the vehicle is running on an uneven pavement driver and passenger were like being shaken inside left to right vise versa .

Abs malfunction. Power steering and brakes go in and out of operation due to a communication error. All lights come on dash, engine light stays on. Occurs mainly when vehicle is hot during summer or above 65mph highway driving. Safety concern as vehicle power steering is unpredictable during this time. The drive shaft locks in park and requires manual override when lights are on, but then without intervention, all the lights go away except the engine light and it runs fine. Abs modules are on back order with no eta because this is a recurring problem for many. Once new abs module is put it, problem can be confirmed and more details can be given by auto repair services.

Abs module/brake and traction light came on in 2021. Jeep dealership said abs module is on backorder. The Jeep at that time was still drivable. Now, may 2025, the abs module has caused so many items to fail that I can no longer drive it. It is currently at the dealership and they just called to say that the transmission and 0 mph is due to the abs module and it is still on backorder with no time frame for them to come in if they do at all. How can this be legal? I can't drive it and I can't sell it! it is my only car! it is dangerous to have this problem with no fix! what can I do?.

See all problems of the 2015 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

My Jeep's steering is excessively loose. There is a good amount of dead space in the steering wheel that the vehicle does not respond. The vehicle wonders left to right constantly and have to continue to correct for it's action. It becomes more of a safety hazard when there is a slight wind or passing or being passed by a larger vehicle like a truck for instance. The vehicle also shifts let and right depending on road conditions, meaning cracks in the pavement or pot holes of any size. I feel very unsecure or unsafe particularly at higher speeds. Please help and thank you in advance.

Wiring to the steering column melted causing concerns with air bag. Dealer wants us to purchase a new steering wheel.

I was almost killed when my Jeep did the death wobble at 70 mph on the freeway. It violently shook out of control while I was in the fast lane of the freeway without warning. I had no control over the steering wheel, and it was pulling me towards the freeway wall. Slowing the car down was very difficult because it was jerking around so violently. I got off the freeway very slowly with my hazards on. A pickup truck followed me off the freeway to make sure I was ok. He said the tires were going crazy, and everybody saw it. It was an 18 wheeler next to me, and I could have died. I only have abt 30,000 miles. Now I’m selling it, because I’m terrified. I live in michigan, if there was snow or ice it definitely would have been tragic. It’s in the shop under warranty, but Jeep dealership telegraph rd in southfield said something was bent and it was my fault why it went out of control. But whatever is bent, got bent from the violent shaking. I didn’t even hit anything. This happened on Thursday on the way to work, when I first got on the freeway it shook a little, and I was getting ready to pull over, then it stopped. 5 mins later that’s when the death wobble occurred. I took it to Jeep around a year ago when it was shaking. They said it didn’t do it, and nothing was wrong.

Lost communication on abs, traction control , 4wd service, vehicle put itself in auto park, steering wheel locked up and wasn't able to turn the steering wheel, dashboard lights flickering, try turning on vehicle but wasn't responding until a 3 minutes later , check engine light is still on but doesn't have any store messages on dashboard, I have a video of it.

Since I leased the car, I have taken it to the dealers 4 different times for the steering wheel shaking out of control the first time the "fixed" it but turned me away the 2nd and 3rd time. Each time I requested the left mid speaker to be checked and replaced but they refused to do anything about it until my last oil change 2 months ago. Last year around November they fixed and oil leak, but the cat never leaked oil form the bottom. The Jeep was burning oil not leaking oil and they never did a consumption test. I took it in because the oil levels were low. However, the speaker is still broken, and I did not return the Jeep because they would not give me a loaner car for the service even though it's under warranty. In addition, right front and back tires blew out and when I had the Jeep towed to the dealership for repairs, I noticed that the back tank next to the muffler was leaking. While the Jeep was at the dealership waiting to be serviced, it was vandalized with the rear left window busted out and pain job damaged. My personal registration and insurance information among other things was taken as well. It's been 3 and a half weeks, and they are jerking me around about the repairs. Yesterday, I talked to the service manager (jose & rob) they were very condescending about having the repairs done. Upon talking to them I was told that the found and fixed another 'oil leak" but never did a consumption test. I didn't notice the oil being low when I turned in the Jeep on 4/14/25, so they assumed that the leak that I mention was coming from the engine and not the rear and found another leak but had not checked the rear for the leak that I requested them to check. In addition, they claimed that they fixed the oil "leak" without doing a consumption test. I turned the Jeep in on 4/14/25 and the vandalism happened on 4/24/25. Fyi this site won't allow me to download the videos of the Jeep doing the "death wabble (shake)". Please email me so I can forward that to you.

See all problems of the 2024 Jeep Wrangler 🔎.

Firsts, "service shifter" came up on the dash, with no other lights. Followed by the check engine light. After that, there was a red tortoise that appeared on the dash that said "vehicle speed may be limited". After which the throttle response was limited and I couldn't accelerate over 10 mph. Within 30 seconds of that the steering wheel locked up, not allowing me to turn and the throttle response died. The vehicle stopped. I turned the vehicle off and back on and began to drive again, almost immediately the same error messages came up, followed by a locked steering wheel (unable to turn) and no acceleration. At this point, the dash board began to illuminate all lights, "auto emergency braking unavailable", "service shifter" "service transmission" etc. With the fuel cluster jumping and dropping. Following this, the windshield wipers began to go without control and then the vehicle died and was unable to be started.

The contact owns a 2022 Jeep Wrangler. The contact stated while driving on the highway at 65 mph and driving over a pothole, the vehicle started violent shake and the steering wheel seized. The contact pulled over, came to a complete stop and was able to continue driving. There was no warning light illuminated. The vehicle was taken to a local dealer where the vehicle was diagnosed and the contact was informed that the shocks were leaking hydraulic fluid, and the steering damper was faulty. The contact was informed that the shocks needed to be replaced. The vehicle was repaired. The manufacturer was notified of the failure. The approximate failure mileage was 23,500.